Hi there,
Has anyone have any experience with Skyframe modules?
I’ve noticed that picking up Skyframe modules with an iswap results in an error of “Labware too high” while with the core gripper is ok.
Also when skyframe modules (with 50ul filter tips) are stacked I can only teach/adjust location of the bottom skyframe module (can only be done with a single pipette), I cannot select the top module. I would like to use skyframe modules on top for picking up tips directly with a 96 head.
Oh wow, that’s something new I haven’t seen before. When were they released? Would of been super nice to have know this was a solution for filtered tips.
Not sure, might be that for the iswap it is too tall for it to pick up and traverse across the deck. Maybe try a lower grip height for iswap?
For stacked labware, I think you have to teach the bottom most one. Does the 96 head error when picking up tips on the top module? Or you have to move the skyframe modules to another position and then pick up?
Hello, I think they came out around 2022-2023 but not entirely sure.
I thought to try something like this as well, with iswap minimum Grip Height acceptable is 25mm or labware is too high
Yes you are correct. It does not error but would like to teach with the head to better adjust for the head better rather the other way around. Another way I thought (long way around) was to make a mock teaching with non stacked skyframe modules, and then transfer the the X and Y coordinates to the bottom labware of the stack. I was just surprised there wasn’t an option to select the top labware and teach with the head as well, thought I’ve might missed something.
They are currently only available in EMEA and not currently sold in the US.
Due to the height of the labware and very low reach required to shuffle Skyframes around, we recommend using CORE Grips to do the transports. Skyframes are not considered consumable and must be kept after use so the empty FTR can be replaced with a new one. Because of this, it requires moving the top labware to an open location and to shuffle the lower layer up which puts the iSWAP in a hard-to-reach location. iSWAP also has a limited grip height as gripping beyond this can lead to collision between the labware and the arm as it rotates. If the remaining labware extends below the Z height of 245 (safe travel height), you will get that error. This is to prevent the iSWAP from crashing against other labware when moving from point A to B.
There is a library called the Advanced Tip Management Library (ATML) that was developed to automate this combination of tip counting and shuffling around of the labware that I would recommend using if you plan are utilizing Skyframes. This will ensure the proper sequence is used for the topmost labware during tip pickup.
For stacked labware teaching, all the coordinates are based off the base labware and then the Z is altered by the stack height parameter in the rack definition for each consecutive stacked labware. This being said, Skyframes are considered tip modules and we do not recommend teaching/altering tip labware teaching. If you are experiencing pickup issues, this could be a sign that there is an alignment issue with the channels/MPH that requires attention.
Hello @BrandonBare_Hamilton I was just testing out the ATML with my sky frames and ran into a couple of issues. First, i had to modify the values set in the HSL code for the “transport of sky frames for STAR” the original values did not open the grippers enough and it would get a z stop loss because the offset paddles would hit the tip wafers. When i updated those values to the values recommended in the manual, it would grab the empty top skyframe but with it the bottom one would come along and ultimately crash it. could that be a grip force thing?
We don’t sell SkyFrames in the US, so I have only tested in house and not in a lab setting.
In my testing, I did not have to adjust any grip values, and it worked without issue.
If you are running into issues where the bottom is being transported with the top, I would double check to make sure the tips are all properly nesting into the entries of the lower tips and not an adjacent one. Additionally, make sure the FTR is properly snapped, and the stack is not compressed in a way where they are sticking to each other. You should be able to manually pick up the top rack without the bottom one moving.
One item that you mentioned that is relevant is “offset paddles”. Are you referring to the deep grip paddles that have the grips off center?
Thank you so much @BrandonBare_Hamilton When i initially went to run the methods it wouldn’t pick up the normal paddles so i swapped out the other ones you pointed out with the arrows. Can the normal paddles be used for these if i update the lay file and revert the transport values?
That’s what ATML was designed to use for CORE Grip transports. If it was having a hard time picking up the paddles, I wonder if the labware needs to be re-snapped to the waste position? That more implies a XY issue.
We had the same experience as mnb18, Both with skyframes sticking to each other and the initial issues with the grippers. I will add some findings from our investigation. Maybe it can help others.
Skyframe documentation is listing the core-paddles with the two “prongs”:
Why this is not a part of the original settings is a mystery to me, but should (according to my local support rep) be flagged with skyframe PM.
Regarding the issues with skyframes sticking to each other, I have experienced the same issue and flagged this to local support rep. There is definitely an issue with tolerances as the top frame will stick to the bottom tip-rack - resulting in unwanted lifting of both skyframes.
There is, as i understand it, an ongoing investigation as to why this is happening. Leaving the skyframes with a seated tip rack in for a while while will stretch the skyframe and fix the issue. Ofcourse this is not a solution that you want as a customer, but it does fix the issue while Hamilton is figuring out how to solve the root cause.
Since Hamilton is very active in these forums I would make request: Please can we have the skyframes in a lightweight metal version? I would think that it could solve the issue it self, also increasing their life-span .
Thank you SO MUCH @Wictor! I imagined there would be a couple of pain points with the sky frames, but overall the idea itself is really cool. Besides these issues we have both encounters have they been working out well for you?
When we have used “stretched” Skyframes we have had no issues with the transports/tip pick up whatsoever. It has been very smooth sailing. It just took us a while to figure out what was going on.
There was one issue with the ATML that I didn’t take a deep dive in; If you would like park positions to be on an elevated carrier position like:
I couldn’t get it to work (but did not spend much time trying), it seems to be an issue with the sorting algorithm. - I am referencing something that i did almost half a year ago so I might be wrong, but I think it complained that there was no park positions in the correct height. Which is a bit weird since the solution above should work well.
I think that the ATML is great and a fantastic addition to Hamilton’s legacy tip count lib. It adds a lot of support to be able to do advanced operations very easily
.